Hyuga's first meeting with Yui (Third Invasion of Shevat)

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May 2012

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[A.C]

ok, so int never completed his PW translation so i could never confirm alot of the PW stories floating around, but i assumed that what you have written in the character section on Yui was true

She is Shevat's premier warrior, and during the Third Invasion of Shevat she defeated Hyuga in combat and took him as her prisoner. But instead of killing him she treated his injuries, and this led them to fall in love.

however, this translation has come under critique lately and i'm curious to know the source of this translation or where you heard this as it is a well known story that may be wrong. exactly where in the PW is this mentioned, the character section?
(EDIT: apparently it's on page 180 in PW.)

this is a quote from another person disagreeing with that translation

That's not what PW says. Now I am not saying I can claim to translate Japanese well at all, but even brute forcing my way through it with a great deal of help from various sources, I know that the prevailing, common view that you presented is wrong. I was able to tease out at least this:

Hyuga lead the 3rd Invasion of Shevat shortly after being appointed Guardian Angel. While the fight was going on around them, with neither side gaining an advantage, Hyuga met and fought GASPAR in single combat. I don't know if that Gaspar is Wiseman Gaspar or Yui Gaspar. In any event, Hyuga and Gaspar apparently agreed that the outcome of their battle would decide the fate of Shevat, but they fought to a stalemate. At some point during the invasion, Hyuga met Yui (it may have been in fighting her, it may not; it may also have been a trick of the three Wisemen to distract Hyuga). He fell in love with her almost immediately. Once fought to a stalemate, Hyuga realized that the entire invasion was turning into a war of attrition and ordered the withdrawal of the Solarian forces. There was some question as to whether or not his hard fall for Yui had some factor in motivating him to end the invasion.

Later, Hyuga made several covert trips to Shevat to see Yui. (Cain was apparently aware of this and allowed it.) Wiseman Gaspar gave Hyuga an ultimatum if he wished to marry Yui: put away his sword and never use it to kill again. Hyuga agreed, and Yui kept his sword in safe keeping. Hyuga and Yui married and soon had Midori. Gaspar, who had trained Yui in martial arts, also trained Hyuga in unarmed combat. Hyuga never lived in Shevat, and when Cain ordered him to the surface to watch over Fei, he brought Yui and Midori with him, changing his name to Citan and their last name to Uzuki.

That is certainly not entirely accurate. However, I know it is more accurate than the more well-known story about the 3rd Invasion how Hyuga and Yui ended up together. I may have terrible skill with Japanese, but I rather doubt that no matter how poor a job I did trying to figure it out, that I would come out with an entirely different story that contradicts the commonly known story at almost every turn.

i'd like to confirm what the true story really is.

[TheContact]

This topic is wonderfully retro.  Despite having owned several copies of PW, my Japanese never really progressed to the point where reading it was an option that wasn't an exercise in frustration.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Yui holding Shitan prisoner tidbit came from a timeline somewhere else rather than the actual character bio/history or whatever.  That book seems all over the place when it comes to disseminating information.

[Kia_Purity]

That it does, yeah.

I haven't really translated it either (mainly because kanji still eludes me so badly that I'm like HAY WALL *crash*)... although, y'know, I keep wondering where "Uzuki" comes from because it just seems out of nowhere.

... speaking of which, I remember reading a different translation of PW and it made it sound like Uzuki was Yui's name. Hooray for confusing translations!

[Myaru]

There were a lot of mixups with Shitan's translation, and the one presently on the site is wrong.  Hyuga meets Yui after being defeated by her grandfather - apparently - and fell in love with her at that time.  As it turns out, they do not fight each other.

The full, recent translation is here: http://myaru.livejournal.com/452762.html

The profiles on GA have been wrong for a while, and I just haven't gotten around to correcting them.  Classes take precedence over websites. 

In any case, Shitan's is the profile with the worst problems, which is why I did his first.  The source was three times removed from the original Japanese (which I'll explain if you like), so I'm not surprised there were huge problems with it.  At the time I took what I could get.


Edit:
Was that from Princess Artemis's site, by the way?  Or was it on a board somewhere?  How recent is it?  A link would be appreciated.

[A.C]

it was from a gamefaqs thread on the Xenosaga III board. it didn't have much to do with PW. the topic just came up.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=929933&topic=38221529
it begins on page 3.

[Myaru]

Interesting, it IS Princess Artemis.  At least according to the signature.  She posted a more closely translated section on the Third Invasion years ago - I remember talking to her about it.

Anyway, she's right.  Thank you for the link.

Edit: added a note to GA's update page, with links to the current translations.  Best I can do right now.

[A.C]

i'm playing through Xenogears right now and even though the story isn't connected to Xenosaga it's still funny to think of Xenogears as a sequel anyway and imagine some of the souls from 'Saga characters being reincarnated in Xenogears... especially if you consider the same seiyuu's for some characters.

whenever i hear Fei speak i think of U-DO's VA from Xenosaga III, and when Elly speak i think of Nephilim's VA, when Citan speak i hear Jin's VA, when Bart speak i hear Virgil's VA and when Ramsus speak i hear Cherenkov's VA, and everytime Vance speaks i hear Tony's VA, lol.

[Myaru]

Even though they have audio/animation in Xenogears, I never really think of the characters as having voices.  It's all of that text getting in the way, making it more like a book than a game.

Now that you bring it up, though, I could definitely hear both Nephilim's and Jin's VAs in the roles of Elly and Shitan.  Completely separate from the KOS-MOS theories that used to float around, her VA would fit Miang pretty well - KOS-MOS as Mary, specifically, though either would work for me.  She has a great voice, and it conveys coldness so well when she wants it to.

[A.C]

i never used to attach voices to the text in Xenogears before, but now after Xenosaga, and recognizing the similair style in dialogue, it's sometimes hard not to. i think it's the fact that 'Gears don't have any voices that gives it a benefit in matureness over 'Saga.

there are lots of things in the story that i look at in a new way now. i can't look at OR Weltall's red power aura without thinking of U-DO waves...which is kind of what it is. 'Saga could have worked excellently as a prequel if they wanted to.

now i wonder what the long-term plan for 'Saga was. i think it would have been very cool if they kept some of the seiyuu's and reused them even within the future of 'Saga's universe to recognize reincarnated souls. they made a nice job of explaining the nature of souls in 'Saga, which they kind of left out in 'Gears.

i still think that 'Gears is the superior story though. 'Saga is still quite frustrating and messy to think about.

[Myaru]

Saga could have had a very good story, or at least a backstory.  I'm not in the camp that whines about how the series was ruined by team changes and stuff, but they were clearly forced to pare the story down.  It happens.  I think Takahashi is too ambitious with his ideas.  I'd have liked to see the original plan too, though.

I kind of agree with what you said in your first paragraph - not having voices is probably what enabled Gears to be so much more complex.  Spoken dialog takes so much time, if you think about it.  But if you're just dumping a book's worth of text onto the screen, you can spew out really convoluted ideas in a short amount of time.  There's also the fact that exposition works great in a text script, but sucks in a spoken one (like in the conversation between Shion and Virgil in Episode I re: Realian rights).  So it's just not as easy to slip bits about story history into the dialog.  This has always been one of my loudest complaints - this and the Database.

Xenogears could've been shorter if they'd, like, edited the script, though.  Damn.  It isn't like they translated it badly (at least from what I looked at), they just didn't do any of the extra steps to polish it up. 

[TheContact]

It's rarely time that's a factor in using text vs. voice... it's a matter of money.  Lots of dialog costs a lot of money.  Especially if you want to do voice localization.  You're going to need the subtitles in there anyway for people who don't play with the volume up.

There's also the fact that exposition works great in a text script, but sucks in a spoken one (like in the conversation between Shion and Virgil in Episode I re: Realian rights).

I disagree with you there on the point that exposition works great in a text script - it works great if you have a narrator.  It sucks when characters are talking it out in a way to inform the audience.

A good game is going to let the player do the exposition through play.  Takahashi isn't too ambitious with his ideas - he just forces his storytelling style into a medium ill-suited for it.  Xenogears would probably have been even better as an anime (or if it needed to have all the insane detail, probably best suited to a novel/written series).

[A.C]

personally, i think Xenogears worked splendidly as a video game story. i wouldn't trade the CGI fmvs or the in game graphics for a 2D anime at this point, much less a novel where all the music and visual extravaganza would be missed out. the Xeno vision Takahashi holds seem to be very visual and i'm not sure a book would be totally satisfying. when reading the Pied Piper story i always wanted to see what everything looked like. just having it described wasn't satisfying.

i would have liked to see 'Saga done using the Xenogears engine, Mitsuda doing the score, and no VAs, only some of the movies at vital points (like in Episode III) that would have made it a better experience imo. i would also have loved it to be a prequel to Xenogears where everything tied in as originally intended when they were still at Squaresoft.

[Surtur]

Well, the Pied Piper translation probably wasn't as satisfying because you knew it was really supposed to be a game.  If it had just been written as a novel originally, and you read a translation of that, you might have enjoyed that more.

I don't think Takahashi is too ambitious either, I think his problem is that he just doesn't have enough talent to back up his ambitions.  He needs to keep working at it.  He has great ideas, but he's not all that fantastic at actually writing them (shoving a lot of them into supplementary materials like the database, instead of working them into the actual story) - and I agree with TC, video games are not the medium for him, especially if he wants to improve.  He's only stifling his creativity by not focusing on another medium more suited to his elaborate stories, like film or anime or whatever, imo.  I think he would probably thrive most as a novelist, but like AC, I do like seeing his stuff in a visual format... so I would be happiest if he did an anime.  Or maybe a manga.  With art from his wife?  That could be really good, a sort of best of both worlds (writing and visuals) thing.

[TheContact]

Takahashi's next endeavors will surely be books on tape.  It's the next big thing!

[Surtur]

No no, you've got it all mixed up.  He is literally going to be writing on rolls of masking tape.  Continuing his hot streak of choosing the best possible format for his ideas.